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ZanZero suggestion 1: In-Map buy sign changes

Started by 1cec0ld, Mar 06, 2020, 01:16 pm

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Approve of the change?

Yes
No
I'll comment Below.

1cec0ld

Mar 06, 2020, 01:16 pm Last Edit: Mar 06, 2020, 03:23 pm by 1cec0ld
Quote from: ZanZeroI'll start with the least controversial changes and slowly ramp up from there. I feel like besides gym battles or getting all of the fly spots, there's no reason to be on the actual Pokemon map instead of in the wild. While I think that's for a lot of reasons, I also think its partially due to the fact that the market prices on tools and weapons are ludicrously overpriced, you can't even buy most items and the only way to actually climb the servers progression tree is to spend 90% of your time in the wild instead of on the map (we'll come back to this later). I recommended to 1ce that the currently underutilized department stores in each region should be filled out with signs for basically everything a player could ever need, from potions to building blocks. The current selection of items at the standard marts isn't too bad, although I do think it could do with maybe a sign for basic potions of healing, shields, armor, and shulker boxes for pre-house storage. I think the prices on items are exorbitant at the moment as in the time it would take for me to kill enough mobs to buy a iron axe I would be using my fists, as the iron axe I had started with will have broken. So it's not just a diminishing return, it's a net loss. Before I remembered the Wild existed I ended up spending way too much money on iron weapons that would break before I could afford another one. So alongside this essay I'll also be posting a spreadsheet for some of the items I think should be in the Marts/Department Stores/Specialty Shops and my proposed prices based off of my experience on the server so far. It's not entirely complete, as I'd like to just put these ideas out there so we can start talking about them, but it's a start. The only unrelated change I would also make to the market would be to alter the algorithm for housing costs, setting it to a flat $100 per block. This would set the smallest home to ~2,400 from ~1,800, the average home to ~4,100 from ~6,150, and the largest to ~14,400 from ~79,000 (wtf.png). There are more than enough houses for every player, with more to come, and I think making homes a feasible expenditure for a mid-game player would be a good way to keep em' around and on the beautiful map y'all have made instead of just playing survival mode in the wild.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wC2NqU5wgA2DJ9FjV37Su879_qTdMMzZu3v7jpSXVLA/edit?usp=sharing

r1579

I agree about the pokemon map. there really isn't much to do and anything you could want can be crafted in the wild way faster then just buying it. As for the map itself, it loses it's charm once you ran the whole thing once and got reigon fly. there's nothing wanting me to keep coming back to it outside of trying to find players to kill for loot, A specific mob, or the occasional Gym challenges. Otherwise i'm out in the wild pretty much on my own farming materials.

The shops could definitely use an update. the discord chart you posted looks good, except for the shulker box. let's keep that a rare item. You still have access to the e chest in the pokecenters so you still have some form of storage.

I'm currently ok with the system that's already in place. Cheap houses are easy enough to get and there are a good few of them around each region. The more expensive houses are still obtainable as is, just takes a bit more work.
"There is a difference between like and trust. Just because I tolerate you nearby doesn't mean your friend. It just means I don't mind your company."


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1cec0ld

Keep in mind, there is currently a set formula for home prices. That formula can be easily tweaked, but it is based on 3 points:
  0,  0     #A house of size 0 will always cost 0.
  24, 1800  #The smallest house available (24 tiles) is 75*tiles.
  43, 6450  #The average house available (43 tiles) is 150*tiles.

Using those 3 rules, and the website
        //https://www.desmos.com/calculator/lac2i0bgum
I was able to visualize a curve so that larger houses get more expensive as time goes on. While I'm not very keen to remove the curve (I like the idea that the next tile costs more than the one before it, and it fights inflation [which I realize isn't a problem yet, but I expect it will be]) I am open to adjusting the points to make it less steep.

Zanzero

Quote from: 1cec0ld on Mar 06, 2020, 02:09 pmKeep in mind, there is currently a set formula for home prices. That formula can be easily tweaked, but it is based on 3 points:
  0,  0     #A house of size 0 will always cost 0.
  24, 1800  #The smallest house available (24 tiles) is 75*tiles.
  43, 6450  #The average house available (43 tiles) is 150*tiles.

Using those 3 rules, and the website
        //https://www.desmos.com/calculator/lac2i0bgum
I was able to visualize a curve so that larger houses get more expensive as time goes on. While I'm not very keen to remove the curve (I like the idea that the next tile costs more than the one before it, and it fights inflation [which I realize isn't a problem yet, but I expect it will be]) I am open to adjusting the points to make it less steep.

I think future-proofing is always smart so I say we stick with a curve. My main issue is that the average house price being nearly 6000 dollars is far too much. I don't mind a bit of a grind, but in a standard world, you'd have a base with storage set up within the first few minutes, while this would take weeks to grind for. I'm not saying a house should barely cost anything, but I do think that having the average price closer to 3000-4000 with the smallest being near what it is now would be far better. On the current system, the largest house was nearly 70k right? If so I think that being closer to 15k to 20k would be fine. It is still a solid grind and status symbol kind of deal while not being in holy-shit-fuck-that territory.

tenebrae

Pokemart shops have always been a scam. You can easier get the material in the wild. It's hard to keep an economy when money keeps entering and circulating,  but never leaves.

I don't think there's an issue with houses. Either save up to buy a nice big house, or buy a cheap one near the start and then save up for later.

Zanzero

Quote from: tenebrae on Mar 10, 2020, 04:50 pmPokemart shops have always been a scam. You can easier get the material in the wild. It's hard to keep an economy when money keeps entering and circulating,  but never leaves.

I don't think there's an issue with houses. Either save up to buy a nice big house, or buy a cheap one near the start and then save up for later.

On the housing, I suppose that's fair. I do think that the mid-higher end houses are still atrociously priced though. Especially for the grind necessary.

As for the market/wild, I think that you hit the problem I have with it on the head. I seriously think having the wild be something that impacts the progression/acquisition of goods on the main map is a serious problem for the longevity of the server. Because at that point why not just play on an SMP server? So fixing the market and making it either a competitive alternative to the wild or self-sufficient enough to be able to make the wild optional is the right way to go, in my honest opinion.

tenebrae

Quote from: Zanzero on Mar 11, 2020, 01:36 pmAs for the market/wild, I think that you hit the problem I have with it on the head. I seriously think having the wild be something that impacts the progression/acquisition of goods on the main map is a serious problem for the longevity of the server. Because at that point why not just play on an SMP server? So fixing the market and making it either a competitive alternative to the wild or self-sufficient enough to be able to make the wild optional is the right way to go, in my honest opinion.

I've always considered the server to be SMP at it's core. Then add in the extras like custom map, skill level plugin, economy plugin, and a different type of progression to vanilla gameplay (gyms and elite 4)

I have no idea how to fix the market to be fair, while also adjusting for money that is constantly being added (mob bounties)
I think wild removal may be the only way to curb that, but the biggest issue is balance.